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THE NEWGROUNDS WAR - DOCUMENTARY

2008-10-06 06:32:11 by Rina-chan
Updated

THE NEWGROUNDS WAR
by Rina-chan

You can download via Mediafire by clicking the above link, or for a direct, no-BS download of the mp3 itself, just click here. This upload is courtesy of rtil; please be considerate of his bandwidth by right clicking and choosing "save target as".
______________________

Clocking in at just under one hour long, it's finally done. I know the feuding has calmed down a bit since the time I called for submissions, but the issue is still relevant and probably always will be.

To give some background: At the beginning of the summer, I held an open call for audio submissions from any and all flash artists who had something to say about the rivalry between artists who spend time making high quality original submissions and artists who make quickly animated video game parodies. I gathered submissions from both groups and put everything together, divided into addressing the following issues:

+ What are the main factors which influence the popularity of a Flash submission?
+ Do you think the Newgrounds voting system is a fair assessment of the quality of a Flash, and why or why not?
+ What is your take on the feud and the reason it exists (or doesn't exist)?
+ Is there a solution?

Yes, it's long. I edited and cut as much as I could, but it's still nearly an hour, and I apologize. However, I suggest listening to it while doing something else like animating, studying, working, or even just stick it on your ipod for the next time you have a long commute. There's a lot of stuff in here.

BIG THANKS to the following artists for submitting:
The-Swain
Kirbopher
Billy Monks/MrChocobo
Aeonstars
Jimtopia
Elder99
Kenkaku
Weird0
RPGsrok
HadoukenDude
Rtil
Squeef/50vmp
CZ-Backlash
Jared Johnson
RabidSquirrelStudios
YungJazz
DonaldM
Gerkinman
SpedsOnAPlane
Omegafinal
Kliff
Anigen

All the background music was composed by my good friends DoctorAttitude and Nubbinownz and used with permission. You can find all these awesome songs for download at their audio portal pages! (The song at 40:20 was originally by Father of Death; Nubbinownz added the drums as part of a contest entry.)

Disclaimer for conspiracy theorists: This is intended to be an unbiased look at the current situation, which is why everyone who sent something in got their submission heard. I did not submit my own opinion nor will I state it here because 1) I can see both sides of the issue and 2) I want the documentary to allow each group to see where the other is coming from and let the listener come to their own conclusion on the matter. No, I don't expect that this will change anything on Newgrounds, nor was that my intention---I just thought it was an interesting debate and wanted to document it.

Check back soon for a bonus Easter egg!


Comments

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JakBaronKingJakBaronKing

2008-10-06 07:01:19

It all looks Awesome!


JakBaronKingJakBaronKing

2008-10-06 07:02:36

Um...is there ANY other way to listen to it besides MEGA Upload?

Rina-chan responds:

I would upload it to my server, but it would kill my bandwidth. :[


BattlethingBattlething

2008-10-06 10:09:16

You`re awesome!


KirbopherKirbopher

2008-10-06 11:23:52

Thanks for the inclusion :]

I'll give it a listen next time I've got a big project to do. Congrats on finally finishing!


DaVeB0TDaVeB0T

2008-10-06 13:43:08

Holy shit, this could be cool.


PepperfrogPepperfrog

2008-10-06 14:00:49

Sounds cool.


RigRig

2008-10-06 14:32:31

Cool, but please use www.mediafire.com next time. :)

Rina-chan responds:

I suppose I could make an alternate upload.


W-P-SW-P-S

2008-10-06 14:47:08

every person who submitted shit for this shit will die
of cancer
the fucking cancer fairy will break into their fucking houses
and she will give them all braincancer
and seeing as the tumor will be allot bigger then their ant-shit sized brains the tumor will fucking crush the brains causing them to die within seconds, it's fucking speed cancer, cancer dat kills immediately, super duper braincancer, tumors of justice

to balance this extreme bad mojo there must be allot of good mojo, meaning da spirits of karma and justice will give me a fucking harem of bitchezzzz

Also sprach Zarathustra, I rest my case, dis is da ultimate truth and you cant avoid it, it's written in da runes and written in our souls, you will all die

just you wait!!!!

Rina-chan responds:

how long did it take you to type that


W-P-SW-P-S

2008-10-06 15:46:49

squeef, you a faggot!


W-P-SW-P-S

2008-10-06 16:38:23

you know i think that
if you got a small audience
it might be small but
the audience does
like your work
so it is YOUR audience and
they like
your work and
well
i dont think
we should fight but
respect each other and
well
you know i
dont make many flashes but
and some are
video game parodies
but its not
that i make them just
because i know
that its popular
but
you know
its just that
etc. etc. ETC.


HolyPeanutsHolyPeanuts

2008-10-06 16:58:48

ITS HERE ITS HERE ITS HERE!

I LOVE YOU!

Rina-chan responds:

:D :D :D


AeonstarsAeonstars

2008-10-06 16:59:47

Just finished listening. You did an excellent job and it must've been a real pain to edit. It's really interesting to see the issue from other viewpoints. It really does shed some light on the situation and it's going to affect my decision next time I vote. There seems to be a general consensus among all the authors too and that's pretty surprising.

Really nice job here, Rina. Do you think you could cut it up in segments and submit it to the audio portal? This audio doc really needs to get heard. Tom should also plug this in the next NG post!


RigRig

2008-10-06 17:26:35

I'm surprised that nobody touched on the fact that it's just easier to do VG parodies. Good character development and storytelling takes work, and a lot of people simply don't want to put the effort into it.

I like the idea of having two portals, or having a split in the FP stuff.


JimtopiaJimtopia

2008-10-06 17:31:37

Thanks for including my parts, and awesome job on the documentary!


W-P-SW-P-S

2008-10-06 17:45:59

squeef, every average hominid that roams this humble globe is ABOVE THIS SHIT


HolyPeanutsHolyPeanuts

2008-10-06 18:06:34

It was worth the wait rina, you pulled it off nicely!


JimtopiaJimtopia

2008-10-06 18:12:17

Wow I didn't even realize it, but my cartoon genre idea was actually implemented. Crazy coincidence. o_O


RadicalWrongDoersRadicalWrongDoers

2008-10-06 18:28:36

congrats on finishing

i'll listen to it sometime


nubbinownznubbinownz

2008-10-06 19:19:04

I wanna be, the very best. Like noone ever was. To catch them is my real test, to train them is my cause. I will travel across the land, searching far and wide. Each pokemon to understand, the power that's inside.. POKEMON (gotta catch em all) Our hearts so true. Our courage will pull us through, you teach me and I'll teach you.. PO KE MON. (Gotta catch em all) OH you're my best friend, in a world we must defend!


BillyMonksBillyMonks

2008-10-06 19:27:08

If this was a flash movie I would vote 5 before watching.


hookerzhookerz

2008-10-06 19:44:51

i wanna hear this but megaupload is pissing me off :[ it doesn't finish my downloads.


HadoukenDudeHadoukenDude

2008-10-06 20:18:44

Hey, nice work on the documentary. Glad I could help.


Rina-chanRina-chan

2008-10-06 21:43:30

Okay guys mediafire upload is up.


JakBaronKingJakBaronKing

2008-10-06 21:58:35

What about "Quicktime" like you did for your preview?

I just personally don't feel comfortable downloading off of any site I'm not familar with.

"Quick-Time" is used often and I feel most comfortable with that.

You don't HAVE to upload it to Quick-time...

I'll just have to miss out of listening.

But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate your work.

Rina-chan responds:

These sites are all safe and widely used for people to send large files... o_o I can't host it on my server because my bandwidth bills will most likely go through the roof.


JakBaronKingJakBaronKing

2008-10-06 22:00:48

Oh wait sorry...perhaps it's that "Quick-Time" would kill your Bandwidth...

I'm sorry...I don't know all that stuff about computers...

Hmm....maybe Tom will allow it on Newgrounds.


omegafinalomegafinal

2008-10-06 22:27:36

Just finished listening to it, and I"m happy with the all the responses and ideas that everyone had. I'm also glad to have helped. Thanks for the opportunity.


JT-FlamezJT-Flamez

2008-10-06 22:30:52

Really great stuff there. I'm glad I got to listen to this and I think it brought out the better person in me. Why worry about what other people think when they aren't thinking the right way in the first place?

Great job you guys. ^_^


omegafinalomegafinal

2008-10-06 23:21:11

Actually, now that I thought of it, some of the suggestions mentioned on there came true, such as the breaking down the genres and credit titles next to each author's names in a certain flash.

This may sound weird, but upload it to the Audio Portal, in parts if needed (or ask Tom to upload the whole thing for you), for instant access. What section and where, I do not know.


VACKennyVACKenny

2008-10-07 01:17:09

I'm afraid to listen to it...

I mean, did my submission make ANY SENSE at all?

Rina-chan responds:

You did use the word "demographic" approximately 8 times in two minutes but I cut some of that out xD


W-P-SW-P-S

2008-10-07 02:54:06

squeef,

anybody who believes this is important should be put into a gigantic chamber, and get gassed, for the sake of humanity

importance is relative etc. etc. but this is so fucking unimportant that it is beyond relativity

stop making excuses to be a lame piece of shit, squeef
you'd never convince me that you're not a lame piece of shit
i wouldn't be surprised if you are actually trying to convince yourself that you're not a lame piece of shit
which is a waste of time, because you could just.. you know.. STOP BEING A LAME PIECE OF SHIT


ZekeySpaceyLizardZekeySpaceyLizard

2008-10-07 02:59:48

god damn squeef
do you even know what elitist means


CalveyCalvey

2008-10-07 05:31:38

This was actually very interesting to listen to, a good collection of differing opinions in a completely unbiased form. So good job.

It seems that the general opinion across the board is that the system on NGs is reasonable and serves it's purpose, it's the users not acting responsibility in their voting which is the problem. And that also contributes to the battle between original and parody flash.

I might also suggest that it may have been an idea to upload the file compressed as a zip or rar file as it could have cut down on the size for some people.

Rina-chan responds:

It still wouldn't have made much of a difference, though---any file that long is going to be big :/


W-P-SW-P-S

2008-10-07 05:42:52

squeef is an emo dipshit fuck you SQUEEF


VACKennyVACKenny

2008-10-07 11:52:53

Big words make me feel smart :(


JakBaronKingJakBaronKing

2008-10-07 15:54:03

Thank You for Uploading an MP3 format.

^_^


CatFatCatFat

2008-10-07 16:22:47

i love you


MAYORMCHEESEMAYORMCHEESE

2008-10-07 16:52:04

DAMNIT GUYS CALM THE F**K DOWN


MAYORMCHEESEMAYORMCHEESE

2008-10-07 16:52:40

and yeah unlock 50vmp


thedo12thedo12

2008-10-07 17:01:51

okay i listend to the whole thing and Im going to give you my honest opinion,

I do think that parodys are overated, and i think its a fact that they are becuase parodys get a higher score and higher views then any other genere.
regardless of quality of writing, and storytelling .

Now im not saying all parodys lack good writing and storytelling, becuase they all dont, for example the popular show southpark has great writing and great storytelling, and even though it is essentialy parody. Another thing to point out in southpark, that even though it is a parody the situations they find themselves in are often original concepts.


SpedsonaPlaneSpedsonaPlane

2008-10-07 17:46:32

oh, thanks for including me! (My mic was by far the crapiest one)


AtomicBottleAtomicBottle

2008-10-07 18:16:35

Just finished listening to it, and I found it very interesting.


ChickenforkChickenfork

2008-10-07 18:25:54

Yes, it is the fault of the fanbase


UkinojoeUkinojoe

2008-10-07 18:38:20

It was cool being mentioned a couple of times :]
The guy who mentioned me was right and made a good point about parody artists reacting to popularity, making another and another. Popularity goes to your head especially if you're like me and are tasting it for the first time.

Fortunately for him though, that doesn't always happen, because I decided popularity isn't enough if you stop enjoying it, and stopped making parodies. While I honestly think Indiada Jodes is much better than Irod Bad, I knew when I was making it that it'd get popular, and what kind of hack does that make me? They're fun once in a while, but if you continue to make them so similarly and consecutively you have no excuse. You just want to get more popular.

People who make parody flashes aren't the problem. It's the people who make a hundred identical sequels.


FrozenFireFrozenFire

2008-10-07 18:44:45

Hearing this kind of makes the internet sound like a big deal and it's hard to find it entertaining.
It's almost pathetic, really.

I still love you though, it's just how I viewed this documentary. :\

Rina-chan responds:

Fair enough, I mean it is an hour of people discussing Newgrounds politics.


DaVeB0TDaVeB0T

2008-10-07 19:05:49

I must say, I have a newfound respect for swain.


rtilrtil

2008-10-07 19:27:34

these comments make me want to throw up


Supernaught1Supernaught1

2008-10-07 19:46:12

You know, just looking at all of these different posts really adds weight to what everyone said. It's true, the system isn't the problem, it's the fact that we're drawing in such a simplistic crowd that is the reason why there seems to be such a divide. One of the big problems I had with everyone's view, however, was the idea of seperating the front page or the submission area into parts for parodies and for original works. We have to look at music videos, for example, they can't really be seperated as easily since they involve copyright music, but they can be seen as original based on the actual animation. Thre are probably a bunch of other examples that could be applied that would end up leaving the submissions page cut into a million pages for each special little niches for every type of movie, but as of now I can't think of them.

Another thing that bugs me is people saying they can tell when someone has put a ton of work just by watching the movie. I have no skill for flash, plain and simple, though I have tried on more than one occaision. I could probably sit in front of my computer for a few months and at the end I would probably have something that would still be sub-par in the face of most things submitted to the portal. My point is that some people have an idea that they want to submit and they put a lot of time into it and still end up releasing something that looks like it was done in almost one week. Conversely, somebody with a lot of skill could probably fire something out in a few weeks and it would look absolutely brilliant, making people think it's his magnum opus or something.

Sadly I don't see a real answer to the problem, but I don't really see this as a problem and more as just life. Everything seems to devolve into a popularity contest no matter what you look at. The Hollywood example was extremely apt, but it could also include almost everything else, like popular books, television, and the like. It comes down to pleasing the audience and there isn't much room for individuality. At the same time, though, one of the big differences between palces like this and Youtube from the real world is the fact that there is almost no money riding on our movies, we're free to do as we please and press the boun dries of what's normal. Maybe not in a artistic sense since even Flash can only do so much, but in terms of storytelling or good taste, since we don't have anyone to answer to aside from ourselves. That's a double edged knife, however, since we can go way too far out of line with what is considered not only normal, but even tasteful or coherent.

I've gotten off on a bit of a tangent, but what i'm trying to say is that we aren't going to find our answers any time soon. I would like it if we could all jsut remeber this is just a website and this is all supposed to be for fun, but getting teenage kids to play nice is about as likely as making marshmallows rain from a sherbert-colored sky. Overall the entire thing was well put together and was trully unbiased, and I'm, glad I listened to this. Thanks to all those who were in this for giving me something to think about, and thank you, Rina-chan, for organizzing this and sending it out to the public.


The-EXPThe-EXP

2008-10-07 19:47:35

You animators are so dramatic..
I've never met an Artist who deals in primarily games that I didn't like and get on with, but then I suppose I'm biased.


WiiporterWiiporter

2008-10-07 19:56:54

it was a great documentary. Some really good arguments.
it's all in the mind...


x-factor11x-factor11

2008-10-07 19:57:29

oh silly rtil :3, anyways, will give it a listen when I have time..